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	<title>Comments on: Automatic music rating</title>
	<atom:link href="http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/</link>
	<description>I would love to change the world, but they won&#039;t give me the source code...</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: pradyumna</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-30807</link>
		<dc:creator>pradyumna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Sep 2010 06:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-30807</guid>
		<description>Something like an online database of songs ratings which can be integrated with our own player and media library would be great i have about 8000 songs in my media library and to rate each song manually would be pain in the --- but the shuffle feature of all player pics one good song for 5 pics rating would be better</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something like an online database of songs ratings which can be integrated with our own player and media library would be great i have about 8000 songs in my media library and to rate each song manually would be pain in the &#8212; but the shuffle feature of all player pics one good song for 5 pics rating would be better</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Villaseñor</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-18696</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Villaseñor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Apr 2010 15:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-18696</guid>
		<description>Have you considered using MPRIS as a media-player-independent interface? this way we can just write an MPRIS app (or daemon) and get every player interface with it through dbus.

AFAIK most of the biggest media player support MPRIS, so it would be easy to adopt your code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you considered using MPRIS as a media-player-independent interface? this way we can just write an MPRIS app (or daemon) and get every player interface with it through dbus.</p>
<p>AFAIK most of the biggest media player support MPRIS, so it would be easy to adopt your code.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Music players of the next generation &#171; thinkblobs</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-18634</link>
		<dc:creator>Music players of the next generation &#171; thinkblobs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:11:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-18634</guid>
		<description>[...]      I read this post and felt really inspired. It got me thinking about what music players of the next generation could [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]      I read this post and felt really inspired. It got me thinking about what music players of the next generation could [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ifrade</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17977</link>
		<dc:creator>ifrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 07:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17977</guid>
		<description>@Dextro the idea is good, but the complexity is huge: ID3 works for Mp3, but not for OGG or any other format, so you start to have a big combination of formats/metadata.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dextro the idea is good, but the complexity is huge: ID3 works for Mp3, but not for OGG or any other format, so you start to have a big combination of formats/metadata.</p>
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		<title>By: Dextro</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17948</link>
		<dc:creator>Dextro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 17:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17948</guid>
		<description>Btw I just remembered the ID3 tag spec has a field for song ratings if I&#039;m not mistaken. Zeitgeist and Tracker are great and all but when you have a way to store such info in the file allowing it to easily be available in several devices (be it computers, portable media players, etc) I think it should be used. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Btw I just remembered the ID3 tag spec has a field for song ratings if I&#8217;m not mistaken. Zeitgeist and Tracker are great and all but when you have a way to store such info in the file allowing it to easily be available in several devices (be it computers, portable media players, etc) I think it should be used. :)</p>
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		<title>By: arpia49</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17940</link>
		<dc:creator>arpia49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 15:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17940</guid>
		<description>@RainCT: The thing I find very interesting is that you don&#039;t have to rate ALL your library, just what you loved or what you hate. If you have weeks of music stored it&#039;s very difficult to give a fair score to all of them, I&#039;m sure that you&#039;re going to change your mood and a song that one day seems an 8, other day could be a 6, in fact youtube and other 2.0 webs have use now as default score system &quot;like/dislike&quot;.

At first I was trying to look for the ultimate music organizer, but suddenly I realized that I want to program with music, but keep focus on the programing thing not into the music. I&#039;m not trying to send you a lastfm account, just the idea under it ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RainCT: The thing I find very interesting is that you don&#8217;t have to rate ALL your library, just what you loved or what you hate. If you have weeks of music stored it&#8217;s very difficult to give a fair score to all of them, I&#8217;m sure that you&#8217;re going to change your mood and a song that one day seems an 8, other day could be a 6, in fact youtube and other 2.0 webs have use now as default score system &#8220;like/dislike&#8221;.</p>
<p>At first I was trying to look for the ultimate music organizer, but suddenly I realized that I want to program with music, but keep focus on the programing thing not into the music. I&#8217;m not trying to send you a lastfm account, just the idea under it ;)</p>
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		<title>By: RainCT</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17937</link>
		<dc:creator>RainCT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 14:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17937</guid>
		<description>@ Dylan McCall:

Absolutely. Different scores for different circumstances (eg. some sort of music for when you&#039;re working on a particular project, another one for when you&#039;re idle, etc.) is something which Zeitgeist could handle up to a certain degree; it would be interesting to experiment with this.


@ Zash, Tuxdragon:

Thanks for recommending those, I may try them out when I&#039;ve got a moment.


@ Arpia49:

While that sort of love/hate rating isn&#039;t that bad (compared to having you choose a numerical value), it&#039;s something I&#039;ve avoided in my proposal as I want the rating to be fully autonomous. Also I&#039;m not really comfortable with streaming solutions with my current 1 Mbps connection (shared between 4 computers). I&#039;m happy that it works for you though :).


@ Gabriel Burt, Paul, Robin:

Thanks for letting me know about this, I&#039;m updating to 1.6 now and will try it out, I may well work enough for me.

However the main reason why I wrote this post was to plug Zeitgeist, which has some advantages:
 - Media-player independent; you can switch to another media player at any time and the information will still be there (without needing any export/import process).
 - Full, situated information so you can have several classifications (see my answer to Dylan McCall), do stuff like finding out which songs you usually listen to together when you are choosing them manually, etc.
 - Another consequence of the previous point is that the score can be recalculated from scratch if the algorithm is improved, given that all data is there.
 - I think I thought of some more benefits of using Zeitgeist for this but I&#039;ve forgotten them by now :P.


@ Ivan Frade:

Hey! Indeed, saving the score in Tracker would probably make sense; I didn&#039;t mention it because Rhythmbox/Banshee aren&#039;t using Tracker at the moment and depending on it just to store a number would be overkill, but I&#039;d love to see those and other applications storing all their data in Tracker (I even briefly mentioned this in my post).

Using Tracker for this would also have a benefit, which is that the algorithm can ask it for the duration of the songs (so that it won&#039;t penalize a song if it&#039;s skipped 10 seconds before it finishes, for example).

However there is one concern I have with Tracker, which is its rigid structure. In many cases there will probably be more than one method for calculating something, for example in this case having a single &quot;music-score&quot; value can be rather limiting. It also doesn&#039;t work with more fancy cases like having different scores for songs you want to hear at the morning / at the night / when you&#039;re coding / when you&#039;re learning / etc.


@ Abhishek Dasgupta:

No, the data-sources aren&#039;t packaged yet. However you can install the Rhythmbox plugin like this:

$ bzr get lp:zeitgeist-dataproviders
$ cd zeitgeist-dataproviders/rhythmbox/
$ sh install.sh

(You may need to enable it manually in Rhythmbox&#039;s preferences dialogue).


Thanks for your comments, everyone! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dylan McCall:</p>
<p>Absolutely. Different scores for different circumstances (eg. some sort of music for when you&#8217;re working on a particular project, another one for when you&#8217;re idle, etc.) is something which Zeitgeist could handle up to a certain degree; it would be interesting to experiment with this.</p>
<p>@ Zash, Tuxdragon:</p>
<p>Thanks for recommending those, I may try them out when I&#8217;ve got a moment.</p>
<p>@ Arpia49:</p>
<p>While that sort of love/hate rating isn&#8217;t that bad (compared to having you choose a numerical value), it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve avoided in my proposal as I want the rating to be fully autonomous. Also I&#8217;m not really comfortable with streaming solutions with my current 1 Mbps connection (shared between 4 computers). I&#8217;m happy that it works for you though :).</p>
<p>@ Gabriel Burt, Paul, Robin:</p>
<p>Thanks for letting me know about this, I&#8217;m updating to 1.6 now and will try it out, I may well work enough for me.</p>
<p>However the main reason why I wrote this post was to plug Zeitgeist, which has some advantages:<br />
 &#8211; Media-player independent; you can switch to another media player at any time and the information will still be there (without needing any export/import process).<br />
 &#8211; Full, situated information so you can have several classifications (see my answer to Dylan McCall), do stuff like finding out which songs you usually listen to together when you are choosing them manually, etc.<br />
 &#8211; Another consequence of the previous point is that the score can be recalculated from scratch if the algorithm is improved, given that all data is there.<br />
 &#8211; I think I thought of some more benefits of using Zeitgeist for this but I&#8217;ve forgotten them by now :P.</p>
<p>@ Ivan Frade:</p>
<p>Hey! Indeed, saving the score in Tracker would probably make sense; I didn&#8217;t mention it because Rhythmbox/Banshee aren&#8217;t using Tracker at the moment and depending on it just to store a number would be overkill, but I&#8217;d love to see those and other applications storing all their data in Tracker (I even briefly mentioned this in my post).</p>
<p>Using Tracker for this would also have a benefit, which is that the algorithm can ask it for the duration of the songs (so that it won&#8217;t penalize a song if it&#8217;s skipped 10 seconds before it finishes, for example).</p>
<p>However there is one concern I have with Tracker, which is its rigid structure. In many cases there will probably be more than one method for calculating something, for example in this case having a single &#8220;music-score&#8221; value can be rather limiting. It also doesn&#8217;t work with more fancy cases like having different scores for songs you want to hear at the morning / at the night / when you&#8217;re coding / when you&#8217;re learning / etc.</p>
<p>@ Abhishek Dasgupta:</p>
<p>No, the data-sources aren&#8217;t packaged yet. However you can install the Rhythmbox plugin like this:</p>
<p>$ bzr get lp:zeitgeist-dataproviders<br />
$ cd zeitgeist-dataproviders/rhythmbox/<br />
$ sh install.sh</p>
<p>(You may need to enable it manually in Rhythmbox&#8217;s preferences dialogue).</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments, everyone! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Abhishek Dasgupta</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17922</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek Dasgupta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 12:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17922</guid>
		<description>Does the rhythmbox plugin which feeds data into zeitgeist have a deb package? I could not find any on http://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-dataproviders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does the rhythmbox plugin which feeds data into zeitgeist have a deb package? I could not find any on <a href="http://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-dataproviders">http://launchpad.net/zeitgeist-dataproviders</a></p>
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		<title>By: ifrade</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17916</link>
		<dc:creator>ifrade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 11:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17916</guid>
		<description># The actual algorithm, probably implemented as a periodically run script leaving the aggregated information at some accessible place, although this may vary depending on the degree of fanciness you choose.

The output should/can be a property in tracker &quot;zg:music-score&quot; or something like that. 

BTW i think that algorithms as plugins in ZG, &quot;publishing&quot; the aggregate values &quot;somewhere&quot; (e.g. Tracker) is the way to go.

# The interface, ie. plugins for Rhythmbox and other media players which take that information and use it to provide an option for semi-randomly choosing music excluding stuff you don’t like.

That could be part of the Applications/Tracker integration. The Tracker plugin in Rhythmbox can offer playlist like &quot;recently played&quot;, &quot;by playcount&quot; or... &quot;by zeitgeist relevance&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p># The actual algorithm, probably implemented as a periodically run script leaving the aggregated information at some accessible place, although this may vary depending on the degree of fanciness you choose.</p>
<p>The output should/can be a property in tracker &#8220;zg:music-score&#8221; or something like that. </p>
<p>BTW i think that algorithms as plugins in ZG, &#8220;publishing&#8221; the aggregate values &#8220;somewhere&#8221; (e.g. Tracker) is the way to go.</p>
<p># The interface, ie. plugins for Rhythmbox and other media players which take that information and use it to provide an option for semi-randomly choosing music excluding stuff you don’t like.</p>
<p>That could be part of the Applications/Tracker integration. The Tracker plugin in Rhythmbox can offer playlist like &#8220;recently played&#8221;, &#8220;by playcount&#8221; or&#8230; &#8220;by zeitgeist relevance&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17904</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 09:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17904</guid>
		<description>The newest Banshee can shuffle by rating and by score. (Rating is done by hand by giving &quot;stars&quot; to a song, so that&#039;s not what you want.)

Scoring is done automatically, depending on how much of the song you listen to before you skip it and the score it had before. You can show the score column in the track list to see what score a song currently has.

So maybe that&#039;s already what you want. But of course you need to use it some time to &quot;train&quot; the scores.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The newest Banshee can shuffle by rating and by score. (Rating is done by hand by giving &#8220;stars&#8221; to a song, so that&#8217;s not what you want.)</p>
<p>Scoring is done automatically, depending on how much of the song you listen to before you skip it and the score it had before. You can show the score column in the track list to see what score a song currently has.</p>
<p>So maybe that&#8217;s already what you want. But of course you need to use it some time to &#8220;train&#8221; the scores.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17898</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 07:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17898</guid>
		<description>Banshee got an automatic rating feature in 1.6. See http://banshee-project.org/download/archives/1.6.0/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Banshee got an automatic rating feature in 1.6. See <a href="http://banshee-project.org/download/archives/1.6.0/">http://banshee-project.org/download/archives/1.6.0/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel Burt</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17892</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel Burt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 06:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17892</guid>
		<description>Are you asking for something different than Banshee&#039;s ability to auto-score songs, from 0 to 100, based on whether you play or skip them?  It was first released in &lt;a href=&quot;http://banshee-project.org/download/archives/1.5.0/&quot;&gt;Banshee 1.5.0&lt;/a&gt; almost a year ago.  You can add it as a column and sort by it, or add it as a condition in a smart playlist (or search), or you can Shuffle by Score (or Auto DJ by score) which will prefer your higher-scored songs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you asking for something different than Banshee&#8217;s ability to auto-score songs, from 0 to 100, based on whether you play or skip them?  It was first released in <a href="http://banshee-project.org/download/archives/1.5.0/">Banshee 1.5.0</a> almost a year ago.  You can add it as a column and sort by it, or add it as a condition in a smart playlist (or search), or you can Shuffle by Score (or Auto DJ by score) which will prefer your higher-scored songs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dextro</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17860</link>
		<dc:creator>Dextro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17860</guid>
		<description>THIS! I&#039;ve seriously been looking for this particular funcionality for a very long time, glad to know I&#039;m not the only one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THIS! I&#8217;ve seriously been looking for this particular funcionality for a very long time, glad to know I&#8217;m not the only one.</p>
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		<title>By: tuxdragon</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17858</link>
		<dc:creator>tuxdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 21:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17858</guid>
		<description>You can do much of it already with gmusicbrowser per weighted randoms and other filters. It&#039;s one of the most flexible and functional (local-)audio-library/player programs out there.

Too bad it doesn&#039;t receive as much attention.


Some more info on it: http://gmusicbrowser.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can do much of it already with gmusicbrowser per weighted randoms and other filters. It&#8217;s one of the most flexible and functional (local-)audio-library/player programs out there.</p>
<p>Too bad it doesn&#8217;t receive as much attention.</p>
<p>Some more info on it: <a href="http://gmusicbrowser.org/">http://gmusicbrowser.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: arpia49</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17847</link>
		<dc:creator>arpia49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17847</guid>
		<description>I know this is not what you are lloking for but... I&#039;ve been trough the same issues with lot of music and my final solution is Premium Lastfm.

I don&#039;t hear it everyday but the &quot;love/ban song&quot; is the ultimate sorting interface for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is not what you are lloking for but&#8230; I&#8217;ve been trough the same issues with lot of music and my final solution is Premium Lastfm.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t hear it everyday but the &#8220;love/ban song&#8221; is the ultimate sorting interface for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Dread Knight</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17845</link>
		<dc:creator>Dread Knight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17845</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a great idea :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a great idea :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Zash</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17843</link>
		<dc:creator>Zash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17843</guid>
		<description>QuodLibet has a plugin that does this, except I don&#039;t think ratings decrease over time if you don&#039;t listen to a particular track.

And QL&#039;s search functionality is completely awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>QuodLibet has a plugin that does this, except I don&#8217;t think ratings decrease over time if you don&#8217;t listen to a particular track.</p>
<p>And QL&#8217;s search functionality is completely awesome!</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17840</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17840</guid>
		<description>Wow that sounds terrific! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow that sounds terrific! ;)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dylan McCall</title>
		<link>http://bloc.eurion.net/archives/2010/automatic-music-rating/comment-page-1/#comment-17837</link>
		<dc:creator>Dylan McCall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Apr 2010 20:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bloc.eurion.net/?p=553#comment-17837</guid>
		<description>Something that occurs to me is I have trouble rating things in a general sense. I rate things within a certain context. For example, a particular track may be an awesome fit within my “Thinking music” soundtrack, but terrible in other contexts.

Anyway, just throwing that out there. Sounds like a good approach you have :)
I could have sworn there was an automatic rating extension being worked on for Banshee, but I haven&#039;t seen it.

Good luck to anyone who takes it on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that occurs to me is I have trouble rating things in a general sense. I rate things within a certain context. For example, a particular track may be an awesome fit within my “Thinking music” soundtrack, but terrible in other contexts.</p>
<p>Anyway, just throwing that out there. Sounds like a good approach you have :)<br />
I could have sworn there was an automatic rating extension being worked on for Banshee, but I haven&#8217;t seen it.</p>
<p>Good luck to anyone who takes it on!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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